Afternoon Opprocrastinators! A traffic question for you.

Kinja'd!!! "DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back" (karsonkinja)
01/15/2018 at 15:13 • Filed to: None

Kinja'd!!!0 Kinja'd!!! 42
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Fig. 1 - White car is henceforth known as “Goose”. I am the blue car.

Like most people, I strive to drive safely with concern for my fellow motorists. Yesterday, I encountered a situation on the road that has left me wondering if I was in the wrong.

I approached a 3 way intersection and stopped to turn right (See Fig.1). “Goose” was approaching me in the left lane, but there were no cars in the right lane. Feeling that it was safe, I slowly edge out, hug the curb and make my turn. As “Goose” passes, he honks at me. Nothing aggressive, just a couple light taps on the horn.

At first I was indignant at this action. I felt I had done nothing wrong, that the lanes are plenty wide and I came nowhere close to “Goose’s” car, and that if “Goose” was this afraid of other cars, then perhaps he should hand in his drivers license. But, I then realized I don’t know everything, and that maybe, I made a traffic violation that I was not aware of and “Goose” was simply reminding me of it. So I took to google, but I didn’t find anything that pertained to my specific situation.

I present my case before the collective wisdom of OPPO. Did I:

A) Violate a law.

B) Violate no laws, but commit a “dick move” offense.

C) Violate no laws, and “Goose” is a simply a nervous or entitled driver.

D) Laws are an artificial construct that we have been socially conditioned to follow in order to keep us complacent and rob us of our freedoms so that we are more useful to serve the interests of “The Man”™. Therefore the problem “Goose” and I faced is artificial and meaningless, and the only solution for “Goose” and I is to reject society in its current form and live in nature.


DISCUSSION (42)


Kinja'd!!! smobgirl > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back
01/15/2018 at 15:19

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I’m not going to vote, but unless it was really dense traffic I probably would have waited for Goose to go by. I don’t trust Geese to stay in their lane unless I saw them move left just to let me out.


Kinja'd!!! SPAMBot - Horse Doctor > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back
01/15/2018 at 15:21

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I too would like to know what the hive mind thinks of this. I used to do this often but I would get honks about 50% of the time so I mostly stopped. I feel like the person honking is just timid because of course I see them. To up the ante, I sometimes make this move when there is a car parked up ahead in the lane. Then I just accelerate and change lanes when there is a gap. I receive a honk much more often when I do this, even though I feel it is safe to do so.


Kinja'd!!! Nibbles > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back
01/15/2018 at 15:23

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Pretty much C, at least where I’m at. It’s not a ‘dick move’ to occupy a space in an unoccupied lane


Kinja'd!!! WilliamsSW > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back
01/15/2018 at 15:25

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Somewhere between B and C, I’d say. On the busy street outside my neighborhood, cars do exactly this all the time, including me on occasion.

I try to time it so that either I’m making the turn a ways ahead of the oncoming car, or just slightly behind it- if you do it simultaneously, all it takes is a wide turn or a bit of a fishtail (both of which I see regularly here in winter because people are idiots) to cause an accident.

You may know you’re not going to swing into his lane, but if I’m Goose, I do not trust you —- AT ALL.


Kinja'd!!! TheRealBicycleBuck > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back
01/15/2018 at 15:27

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In general, the laws say to wait until traffic is clear. What you did is not technically illegal, but is a bit of bad move. Many people can’t keep their car in their lane when making a right-hand turn (and by car I mean big-ass truck or SUV). I’m not saying you swung wide, but b y turning, you created a hazard, even if was just a percei ved hazard and not a real one . The hazard is a slow-moving vehicle in the traffic pattern. At least, there was a big disparity between your speed and his until you were able to accelerate up to traffic speed. In short, i t made him nervous, so he let you know he didn’t like that with a short tap on the horn.

It’s best to just wait if you can.


Kinja'd!!! crowmolly > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back
01/15/2018 at 15:27

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I approached a 3 way intersection and stopped to turn left (See Fig.1).

Eh? Did you mean turn right?

If so, horn was unnecessary as you did nothing wrong.

If I had to guess, Goose was afraid that you would be one of the dickholes that does not merge into the close lane (hug the curb) and rather you’d take it super wide into his lane, leading to an accident. Where, of course, he breaks his neck leaving his best friend afraid to drive. His wife will cry, and his best friend will be haunted for a while until an emergency arises and the friend has to drive out to help a former rival. Once that’s over there is a lot of manly hugging and the friend will throw Goose’s keys into a nearby body of water.


Kinja'd!!! DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back > SPAMBot - Horse Doctor
01/15/2018 at 15:28

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Yeah, I’ve been on both ends of this. I live in a large city with a lot of traffic so I feel like this kind of thing is pretty normal. Unfortunately it is also “normal” to swing way too wide and get into the next lane over. That kind of behavior deserves a honk in my opinion. But I’m not usually bothered if someone stays in their lane.


Kinja'd!!! DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back > smobgirl
01/15/2018 at 15:29

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You’re right. I wasn’t in a hurry, I would have lost nothing but a few seconds by being extra cautious.


Kinja'd!!! OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back
01/15/2018 at 15:29

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C


Kinja'd!!! syaieya > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back
01/15/2018 at 15:31

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Youre technically in the right on this, but people are stupid and easily frightened.

Its the taking up a urinal right next to another guy mentality where sure you can do it, but it makes both parties more comfortable if you can move a few feet to either side.

I saw a guy not long ago try to do what you did right as the light turned green for us. Problem is that the guy kept it too tight and ate the shit out of the curb. So i found it in my best interest to dart around him, get immediately in the far lane and got a deserved, but upon deaf ears honk from curb eater.


Kinja'd!!! Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back
01/15/2018 at 15:32

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C, as long as you stayed in your own lane. Depending on exactly *how* you turned though, I don’t have any issues with a non-aggressive beep just to make sure you saw him. That’s what the horn was originally for, after all.

Not something I would do but meh.


Kinja'd!!! shop-teacher > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back
01/15/2018 at 15:32

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I’m not sure if it’s illegal, but I do recall learned ng about this situation specifically in Drivers Ed. You are not supposed to turn in this situation, because at the moment you start your turn, Goose could be checking his blind spot and start changing lanes. I wouldn’t have honked if I were Goose, but that’s a high risk move you pulled.


Kinja'd!!! Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > shop-teacher
01/15/2018 at 15:35

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The info I got in drivers ed was along the lines of “You can turn if you want to. Nothing wrong with it. BUT if I were you, I wouldn’t.”

Personally I just time it so I’m a little before or behind the person in the other lane... I don’t trust the guy turning if I’m Goose and I don’t trust Goose if I’m the guy turning


Kinja'd!!! TeamPunkassRacing > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back
01/15/2018 at 15:36

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probably just spooked Goose. My wife is always worried about people making turns like that, and when people are merging onto the highway. I think it was more “Hey, jut in case you didn’t see me” rather than “Hey asshole, what are you doing?”


Kinja'd!!! DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back > TheRealBicycleBuck
01/15/2018 at 15:37

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I agree with you in this situation. On a Sunday afternoon with minimal traffic its best to wait. I also timed it badly. If I had done it earlier or later it would be a non-issue

However, I also live in a busy city and I’ll be turning right onto roads with 3 or even 4 lanes with lots of fast moving traffic and waiting for even the next lane over to be clear could be a long or even impossible wait. I feel like this action is fairly common and even acceptable to drivers here as an evil necessity. If it is acceptable in those situations, why is it not acceptable here? (Not arguing with you, just trying to expand the principle)


Kinja'd!!! DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer
01/15/2018 at 15:42

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Maybe its just my perception, but around here the horn is and anger button. I tend to refrain from using it unless someone is being a complete wad. I don’t want a friendly reminder to be misinterpreted.


Kinja'd!!! shop-teacher > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer
01/15/2018 at 15:42

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Yeah, that sounds about right to me.


Kinja'd!!! I have another burner, try to guess it! > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back
01/15/2018 at 15:44

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As for B) I think it just depends on the area. In San Antonio and Houston people do it all the time, so I do it too. But places were it’s not common I don’t.


Kinja'd!!! facw > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back
01/15/2018 at 15:44

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I think it was probably legal, but I’d only make that turn if there was plenty of room, don’t want to catch the car distracted and have them change lanes into me. Some turns you also have to worry about whether the turn will drag the nose of your car into the far lane (though mostly turns from parking lots/driveways, roads normally give you enough space to turn.)

So anyway, good defensive driving says wait, but probably no need to honk at you. The driver might also be annoyed if they had to slow down because they didn’t trust you to make a safe turn.


Kinja'd!!! wafflesnfalafel > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back
01/15/2018 at 15:44

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no harm, no foul for both parties


Kinja'd!!! DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back > WilliamsSW
01/15/2018 at 15:44

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Timing - I think thats what went wrong here. I could have gone earlier or later, but the timing probably spooked him as it was right when he was coming across the intersection that I pulled out.

I understand the distrust too. I guess I just figured it was business as usual, and was surprised he didn’t feel the same way.


Kinja'd!!! BigBlock440 > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back
01/15/2018 at 15:47

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B. It mostly depends on traffic. If it’s light, just wait the few seconds. Since he passed you, it wouldn’t have been that long a wait. If traffic’s heavy and that’s your only space, well, you gotta do what you gotta do.

I made the mistake of turning into an unoccupied lane when I was a dumb teenager. Thought it was clear, but the other car decided to enter the same lane I was shooting for at the same time. Shit, there goes my accident free discount. They should have seen me, but for some reason did not. Maybe they were thinking the same, I should have seen them, which I did, but did not notice they were changing lanes in time to avoid a collision.


Kinja'd!!! DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back > BigBlock440
01/15/2018 at 15:51

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You and a few others have reminded me that I definitely could’ve got hit if the other driver wasn’t paying attention or there was bad timing. I’m definitely going to keep that in mind when I consider making a similar maneuver in the future.  


Kinja'd!!! WilliamsSW > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back
01/15/2018 at 15:51

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Yeah, if it’s simultaneous, I think it’s a bit unsafe, as it leaves no margin for error. I wouldn’t go so far as to call it a ‘dick move’, but something to avoid.

As I mentioned, I see this a lot right outside the neighborhood, and I do see people doing it who are getting right up to and beyond the lane markers, as well as people doing it too slowly out of fear (which ends up cutting off the next car who actually *is* in the near lane).

Besides that, there are plenty of people changing lanes in that stretch, too—


Kinja'd!!! Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back
01/15/2018 at 15:51

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Oh, it’s the same everywhere I think... but *technically* it was supposed to be a warning device.


Kinja'd!!! Mechanically > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back
01/15/2018 at 16:09

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How’s it go? “They were so busy considering whether or not they could, they never stopped to consider whether or not they should.”

I think this falls pretty solidly in Dick.

That is, unless the roads you were trying to turn right onto were exceptionally busy, thereby forcing you to wait more than 120 seconds prior to having a window in which to turn?

Where I’ve seen this go almost wrong is: driver behind Goose decides they want to merge into the right lane, and does a thorough job of looking over their shoulder to check their blind spot prior to making the merge. If they’ve started that merge before completely turning back around facing forward, there’s a real good chance you’ll see contact.


Kinja'd!!! Chuckles > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back
01/15/2018 at 16:10

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Definitely C. I’ll bet Goose lives in an HOA community and gets grumpy when his neighbor’s grass gets too long.


Kinja'd!!! OPPOsaurus WRX > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back
01/15/2018 at 16:13

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you probably spooked him because most of the dipshits out there don’t know how to properly turn and hold a lane. were you wrong, I dont think so, was it a dick move, not really


Kinja'd!!! DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back > Chuckles
01/15/2018 at 16:14

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Considering the area I live in, and the neighborhood he went into, I’d say you’re probably not far off from the truth. lol


Kinja'd!!! xc90v8/I4 :( > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back
01/15/2018 at 17:06

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Where I live that’ s normal and legal. But some drivers get nervous because other drivers don’t check the surroundings enough. So he was probably just making himself noticable because he can’t tell which lane you’re about to turn into in this situation. 


Kinja'd!!! Maxima Speed > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back
01/15/2018 at 17:58

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Personally I almost always wait because, Geese are erratic and unpredictable. I am, however, voting C and D. :P


Kinja'd!!! ttyymmnn > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back
01/15/2018 at 18:29

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Late to the party, but here goes. Laws likely differ by state, but in TX, you must turn into the curb lane (farthest right) when making a right turn (as told to me by a sheriff’s deputy). When you are turning left, you can turn into “any legally available lane.” So, were you driving in TX, not only was what you did fine, it was the only legal turn you could have made.


Kinja'd!!! TorqueToYield > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back
01/15/2018 at 19:01

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What you did is they only way to drive in a city.

If you waited for traffic to clear in NYC (or Chicago or SF or Boston or wherever) you would still be at that stop sign.


Kinja'd!!! Urambo Tauro > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back
01/15/2018 at 21:09

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Hard to say. Really depends on your local laws. Some say you have to yield to all approaching lanes of traffic.

In my state, “Goose” here would have been required to already be in the right lane, and you would of course have had to yield to him. And even if he’s in the left lane, he’s got the right-of-way to return to the right lane at any moment, so there’s always a chance that you’d be cutting him off. HOWEVER he’d have to SIGNAL before executing such a lane change. If you pulled out into the right lane at the same time that Goose merged right without signalling, it’s quite possible that both parties would be at fault for the wreck.


Kinja'd!!! gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back
01/15/2018 at 22:17

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In my area there are a bunch of assholes driving quadcab 250s or suburbans that don’t know the length of their vehicle and pull out into both lanes, so I can understand his reaction.


Kinja'd!!! merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back
01/15/2018 at 22:17

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C. Simple as that.


Kinja'd!!! merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > BigBlock440
01/15/2018 at 22:18

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Did you get cited? Did they signal the lane change?


Kinja'd!!! BigBlock440 > merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc
01/16/2018 at 06:59

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I don’t know if they signaled, couldn’t see their lights. Nobody got cited, I don’t know if either action was illegal, but we just pulled into a parking lot, exchanged information and left. I was making a left out of a parking lot, so not exactly the same scenario, but still a turn into a previously empty lane. I’m not going to make that mistake again.


Kinja'd!!! merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > BigBlock440
01/16/2018 at 08:05

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Yeah, that sucks no matter how you look at it. At least you didn’t back into somebody at a stop sign... there’s a reason new driver insurance rates are so high... because we do dumb things. But as long as no one was hurt and you learn something, it’s not all for naught.   


Kinja'd!!! BigBlock440 > merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc
01/16/2018 at 08:45

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At least you didn’t back into somebody at a stop sign...

Funny you say that....

A bit before this incident in a different vehicle, only 2 months driving I was looking for the entrance to a parking lot. I was used to driving on farm roads and private property and such, so I get to the stop sign, think I passed up the entrance, put it in reverse and bam. No damage and they guy wasn’t too upset, but another lesson learned, you go where the road takes you and always forward, circle back around if you miss something. That includes highways, no cutting across traffic if you miss your exit, always go forward. Both lessons have served me well, no accidents since high school over 10 years ago.


Kinja'd!!! davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back
01/16/2018 at 09:34

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I’m guessing as soon as you looked right and started entering the road, the other driver decided to try to change lanes.


Kinja'd!!! merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > BigBlock440
01/16/2018 at 14:18

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Yup, that is definitely the take away. I’ve driven round blocks because of missed turns or being in the wrong lane while looking for an address. The way I see it now is that if I screw up and miss something, then I should circle back at my own expense, not jam on the brakes and try to do some crazy maneuver to make the turn. The driving world could use more courtesy.

But you’re right, that type of outlook started back when I first started driving and backed into a vehicle. Lesson learned.